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On-Line Course w/ MA Torres-MacDonald TA, Layne Scott
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2010
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Posts
Hello Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the time to speak to our class. It was great to hear some information about how different sized firms differ from each other. I wanted to ask a couple questions about how things work in these firms. How often is it that an architecture student will become a full-time employee for a firm out of college that they originally interned for in the past? When we choose a firm to intern for, how important is it that we plan a future with them?
I also wanted to ask more about how these firms differ. For a better future, would you recommend starting in a large firm and working our way down, or is this unimportant? I've heard that if you start in a mid-size firm, it is difficult to work your way into a large firm later on if you want to. And even though you said that working in a mid-size firm will give you more general experience on many parts of a building, is the quality of this experience about the same as working at a large firm (where you are working on a very specific part of the building?)
Hope this all makes sense, thanks again,
Phil Hoffmann
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteMy question is similar to the previous but I was wondering what size firm you would recommend beginning interning/working at. I believe the point you made about students coming out of school knowing very little about practicing architecture is very true. Which size firm do you think will help us maximize our learning experience. Also, do you think a general knowledge base or a more specialized one at our point in the profession is more valuable. Thank you for taking the time to speak with our class last week. I really enjoyed your presentation.
Thank you,
Allison
Phil and Allison,
ReplyDeleteWe very much like to hire students that have interned for us previously as they "know the ropes" and that eliminates some time on the road to making them profitable. However, we tend to evaluate all of the available candidates equally against each other. If a better candidate comes to the forefront of a particular group, then that becomes our preference for hiring. That is because the pool of practicum students for Houston is generally small compared to the entire pool of graduates seeking full time employment. I personally think that you should choose a practicum firm based on your current goals of where you want to go in the profession. Use the time to explore and don't be surprised that after you work in one type or size firm, you change your goals and focus on another type of firm.
I think that the size of the firm you start out with is one that must match with your long term goals. If you have a dream of doing tall buildings for instance, you will be better served starting in a large, tall building type of firm. It is easier to go from a larger firm to a mid size firm or from a mid size firm to a smaller firm than to reverse the course. It is not impossible, however, but you must be prepared when you go from small to large to take a short step back as you learn the subtilities of a new, more complex building type.
On the other hand, if you have a passion for say school work, just get into a firm that does a lot of that building type. You can always, and probably will, change directions but you need to explore your initial passion and determine if that is a fit for what you want to do.
Hope that helps a bit.
Gary Wilson
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI had a question about movement between firms. I am at a local firm now, trying to earn my hours, but don't plan on staying in the area permanently. Would it be better to stay at the firm after college until my hours are finished or try to move where i want to be as soon as i can find the job?
Thanks,
Kristin
Kristin,
ReplyDeleteI definately think you should move on to your region of choice as soon as practical. However, don't quit your current job until you have another one lined up. Things are still really tough in the architectural field right now and anyone with a job should be doing everything they can to stay gainfully employed. Once you get another job lined up, be sure and give proper notice to your current employeer and write a personal note to him thanking him for the opportunity. You never know when you will encouter this employeer again and don't want to be remembered as one that has no respect for this firm.
Gary
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThanks again for taking the time to speak with us about what is a very important decision for us as young practitioners. My personal experience consists of working at a large firm during the 2 years between undergrad and grad school, so I have not been directly exposed to small or mid-size firms. During my time at the firm, I noticed that there is a wealth of resources for those wishing to pursue accomplishments such as accreditations, licenses, etc. So my question is: Is it common/uncommon to find such resources (i.e. study materials for ARE, LEED exam, mentors, etc.) in small and/or medium firms? Thanks in advance!
Eddie,
ReplyDeleteSmall and mid-size firms have generally fewer resources than the larger firm you experienced. If you remember in our visit last week, I mentioned that as an advantage large firms generally possess. You will always find exceptions such as large firms with few help aids and small firms that have a real passion about things such as LEED and ARE so my comments are generalities at best. If this is a make or break deal for you as you select where you will work, don't hesitate to go into that in detail with your prospective employeer so you completely understand what to expect.
Gary
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI would like to get your perspective on how important a knowledge in construction, and to what depth that knowledge needs to be for a young professional working for either of the three sized firms. I have a background interning for a construction company and I feel that my own personal experiences working in construction and then my experiences in design school obviously have large differences from each other. That being said though, I also feel that the two disciplines have to be known by an architect thoroughly. If you could give me some insight it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Joel,
ReplyDeleteUnderstanding construction is mandatory for any professional. If you think about it, we as architects have an idea for a building then must draw and write up the directions for actually constructing it before it becomes a reality. If you are focused on the schematic phase, you need to know how things are built so you can design buildings that can be built. If you are in construction documents, then a majority of what you do is define construction materials and turn them into assemblies that reflect the design goals. Construction Administration is obviously seeing that the design intent is executed in the field by the contractor, suppliers, and craftsmen. You just can not seperate architecture from construction; they are forever intertwined. Remember, in earlier times the architect was the construction master craftsman. Perhaps we would be better off as a profession if that were still the case.
Gary
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI have heard many things about the time of an architect being very busy and always full. I was wondering if some of the rumors were true that if you try to start your own firm that you will hardly have time for your family? that you will spend practically all your time doing the architecture and keeping the firm afloat. Is this the case and if so how long did it last for you and also once things got rolling did it truly settle down. Also how is the time requirments outside of a 40 hour week differ with the size of a firm? Thank you for your great discussion last week
-Marshall Drennan
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting with us and discussing the difference between the scale of firms and your experience moving between them. I have heard from a few different architects that when first getting out into the practice it is good to move around as much as you can to try out as many different building types as one can. They felt this was a strong way to decide which particular building type one will enjoy working on the most so they can direct they efforts towards that and to also have a widespread portfolio of works. I wanted to know how you felt about this approach.
Thank You,
Michael Morow
Mr.Wilson,
ReplyDeleteYou had mentioned there were some people you didnt enjoy working with. I worked at a firm with 3 Principal Architects that didnt always see eye to eye.I was wondering if it came down to it that one of these people were your partner, how would you go about removing yourself or setting yourself apart from the firm?
Marshall,
ReplyDeleteAnytime you start your own business, you have to be able to dedicate a ton of time to it. You generally have no employees so everything that gets done is by you. My routine when I started this firm (I had my wife and 2 kids under the age of 7) was to work from about 8 to 5, go home for an early dinner and help put the kids to bed, be back at the office around 8 and work until about 11. Weekends were not a lot different but we always put the kids activities first. Fortunately, my wife was tremendously supportive. After a couple of years the schedule started to ease a bit but I still normally work from about 6:30 to 5 during the week and a couple of hours on the weekend. I don't think the size of the firm has much bearing on the hours you put in.
Michael,
Young professionals normally make 3 moves in their first 6 or 7 years of practice. It is exactly as you have heard-young people exploring exactly what fits their needs. I think this is all fine with one caveat-stay at each firm a minimum of 2 years. Any less and prospective employers start to question your dedication or suspect that you were not a good worker. Additionally, it takes a year or more to really get into the type of work a firm is doing and to start to learn the ropes.
Krishna,
There is a big difference in not liking people and not seeing eye to eye. I have a lot of people around here that have wildly different opinions about things than me. However, I respect those opinions and the diversity and breadth they bring to our firm. In fact, it is a real plus to have this variety in our practice.
When you find that you cannot work with one of your partners or shareholders, you normally have 2 choices-buy them out or sell out to them. Which choice you take depends on a ton of variables-your cash position, prospects for the firm going forward, personal goals and needs, your buy/sell agreement, the ability to move the firm in a different direction-the list goes on and on. Never, however, rush into a decision as splitting up a firm is like a divorce-it takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and is a setback for all concerned. My best advice to you is to think long and hard about getting into business with others as getting in is a lot easier than getting out.
Gary Wilson
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting with us and discussing the difference between different scales of firms. At school a lot of people say that Architects don't make a lot of money. I for one want to make a lot of money and will work hard to do so. How do you position yourself in a firm in order to maximize how much you make? For example, you mentioned that to be a partner there are certain things you have to accomplish to be considered. What are some of these things?
Thank you,
Brendon Hoffman
Mr Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThank you again for taking the time to speak to our class, it was great to hear a first hand experience. Do you think your experience and time spent in the larger firm, being able to see how it was run made it easier to branch away and create a smooth transition to starting a mid-size firm? As a follow up to that how was this tranition smoother and what aspects of the old firm did you decide to implement and what portions and actions did you eliminate.
-Kenneth Olson
Brendon,
ReplyDeleteDon't ever let anyone tell you that you cannot make money in this field. In any field, the best will always be rewarded. I have made a great living for many years and want to work with people that aspire to that same level or have already achieved it.
In this business there are three things that are important. First, and foremost, is marketing. You must get the job in order for anything else to happen. This however is probably the part that takes the longest time period to start to show results. Your peers are not in a position now, nor will they be for several years, to make the decisions about architects and capital expendatures. You need to start to cultivate those relationships NOW so that when they are in that position, yours is the first name to come to mind.
Next, designing work is important in our profession. It does not matter if you are doing schematics and form giving or detailing the smallest assembly in a set of construction documents, the principles of good design must come through. Things like materials, texture, color, relationship of materials, alignment, order, and proportion must dominate your work.
Finally, management is a critical component of success. Be it managing a team or simply managing your own time, it is important to be organized and efficient.
Master one of these traits and you will be on your way. Master two of them and you will probably be a principal of the firm. Master them all and you will be in charge.
Gary Wilson
Kenneth,
ReplyDeleteI relish the time I spent in a large firm. Achieving partnership status certainly helped me when I left and started this practice. Be clear about this though-I did not leave to start a mid-size firm. I left to simply start a firm. We were a small firm for a long time, grew to be a mid-size firm over time, and have found a comfortable spot at our current size. However, I would not have any problems getting bigger if the opportunity presents itself nor would I hesitate to shrink if that is what it takes to stay profitable.
I would probably have to write a book to describe what I kept and what I discarded from my previous firm. Needless to say, I tried to keep what worked (such as the method of doing CD's, marketing as a passion, and service,service, service) while discarding the things I saw that were not good (such as a large partnership, departmentalization, and wasted job positions like office librarian). Not all of my decisions worked but I sure had a good start to do this on my own.
Gary Wilson
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to say thank you for speaking with our class and taking time to answer all our questions. I can’t seem to think of anything that has not already been asked. I am excited to speak with you at the career fair, and hope you have a safe trip up here.
Peter Smuda
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI have never done an internship and quite honestly it scares me. I have a lot of questions, I am still not sure what kind of firm I want to own in the future, therefore I don't know what kind of firm I'm looking for to working with now. I had always thought that joining a smaller or medium firm would be better for me because I would be able to get my practice on a little bit of everything, and not being stuck doing window details for 2 years, but now that you mentioned. Would you recommend for me to go this route or to look for a larger firm to work with, since it is easier to go from large to small than from small to large. Thank You!
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI had a quick question about something that was brought up in our discussion with you last week. Somebody asked you whether you thought it was more important to pursue an MBA or an M.Arch (the answer obviously being M.Arch if you have any desire to become a licensed professional) but it seemed as though you portrayed the opinion that an MBA was of very minor importance.
I am currently in the process of getting my MBA in addition to my M.ARCH and will be finishing this upcoming summer. I've always been interested in the business and marketing sides of architecture in addition to design, but have always pursued my MBA in addition to my M.ARCH in order to have increased opportunity to rise within a firm, but I wanted to know, from your experience, do employees with MBA's indeed have greater advancement opportunity in firms or are the business skills required to help manage a firm something that is not taught, rather acquired through experience, diminishing the value of an MBA? Thank you for your time.
Peter,
ReplyDeleteWe look forward to visiting with you at the Career Fair as well. It will be great to see your portfolio.
Rocio,
Probably your best bet at this point, especially since you are apprehensive about the entire experience, is to find a small or mid-size firm where mentors are easier to find. Use this experience as your introduction into the profession and I promise you will start to find a direction for your long term career.
Mark,
I don't want to demean the importance of your MBA by at all but just don't think that in a professional field, such as architecture, that it has a lot of value early in your career. Unfortunately, every school in the country is starting to market their MBA programs, especially the mid-career programs, as a way to make money. Doing your MBA in residence is better in my opinion, but you need experience in the profession and a lot of observation of how firms work in order to effectively manage one. Look at your MBA as an introduction to business rather than a license to run a firm and you will be better served. Short of an MBA from say Penn or Harvard or Northwestern, these degrees are becoming too commonplace and therefore diminished in value. I think it is just hard to substitute for a degree from the School of Hard Knocks.
Gary Wilson
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the time to speak to our class. I have never worked in an architectural firm so I don't know much about how they work. I plan on becoming an registered architect. Would it be more beneficial to me to work in a large firm to get accredited or could I do that in a smaller firm? Thank you for you time.
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteI would just like to thank you for your time in coming in and speaking to us. I enjoyed your presentation and you said many thing that caught my ear and were very revealing. I came into to the class thinking that a large international firm would be where I would be happiest at and my long term goal would be to eventually try to become a partner or open my own firm. This being said you preached about taking a partnership opportunity "with a grain of salt." I was just wondering what you meant by this and what would be the benefits and draw backs to either becoming a partner, or if you would have turned down the opportunity and kept your previous position.
Thanks agin.
Dear Gary Wilson,
ReplyDeleteIn your interview you discuss different size firms and their methods of handling a project. For the large firm you discuss the "process oriented" approach and that even though this "process" is typically very efficient, it also doesn't have the personal touch used by smaller firms. I your opinion how would a medium firm on the verge of becoming a large firm prevent this "process oriented" mind frame?
Mr. Wilson,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for speaking with our class. The information you presented us was both thoughtful and informative. I was wondering what you looked for in hiring a new architect out of school and how the size of the firm might affect what they are looking for in new hires. I am specifically looking to work in a small firm and was wondering if there was anything to emphasize in an interview especially for a smaller firm. Thank you again for your time!
-Lauren Rentschler
You can become a registered architect regardless of the size of firm you work in during your internship program. In a larger firm, you might have a bit more difficulty getting all of your requirements for experience done, but that is offset by the abundance of other resources those firms generally possess. It is about time and experience, not firm size.
ReplyDeleteJohnathan,
Partnership opportunities are generally a goal in almost all firms but just go into it fully aware of the pitfalls as well as the rewards. Generally, partnership means more money, more authority, and more opportunity. But, on the opposite end of the spectrum, it also means being liable for the actions of your partners. A quick story to illustrate my point-SOM was organized as a partnership. In a partnership, all of the partners are both jointly and severably liable. In other words, if a judgement in court comes down against the partnership, the partners don't have to share it equally or even in proportion to their ownership. The judgement can be levied against the one partner with the most money, regardless of what role, if any, that partner had in the liable action. When a court awarded a plantiff a big judgement against the SOM partnership, many of the other partners had to immediately declare bankruptcy in order to protect their assests, even though most had nothing to do with the action. A friend of mine was in this position and it took him about 6 years to work his way out of this, causing him financial ruin.
So, know what you are getting into when the time comes for you to be a principal in your firm.
Anthony,
If you are a mid-size firm about to become a large firm, the normal course of action would indicate that this growth is largely due to the attraction of larger, more corporate clients. I have only seen one occassion where the personal touch was able to be maintained. The firm had multiple partners and each partner had his own team of folks. So, even though the firm was about 300 people, each client was working with a group of 10 to 15 with each group functioning as an independent (almost) entity. Therefore, they were able to be a big player with a small firm feel. It was highly successful and a great way to practice at the highest level.
Lauren,
As I mentioned in my visit last week, my primary focus in an interview is to find that spark of enthusiasm and a solid work ethic. In a small firm, personality and the ability to fit in a culture is even more important. My advice to you is simply relax, be yourself, and be open. You can't guess what a firm's culture and personality are, so display your own. Let the firm see who you are and what you do and they will draw the conclusion if you are a fit. Don't dispair if you are not, as the worst thing for both you and the firm is to bring someone on staff that will be miserable and make those around them miserable as well. You will be fine in interviews if you just don't try to guess what a firm wants to hear and focus instead on letting them get to know you.
Gary Wilson